The porngraphic email scandal has taken another strange turn.
In an interview with CNN on Tuesday, Attorney General Kathleen Kane told reporter Sara Ganim that the pornographic emails sent between top-state officials included pictures of elderly women and children.
“When I saw them, they literally took my breath away,” Kane said when describing the images. “They are deplorable: hardcore, graphic, sometimes violent emails that had a string of videos and pictures depicting sometimes children, old women. Some of them involved violent sexual acts against women.”
Kane did not mention who sent the images. She did add that she was being prevented from investigating the e-mail scandal because of court orders.
Lanny Davis, a spokesman for Kathleen Kane, said the two images he saw were inappropriate, but only “borderline” child porngraphy. “I wouldn’t say over the line, but I would say very close”, Davis concluded.
The Philadelphia Inquirer had additional details on some of the images.
Last week, Kane disciplined 30 staff members in regards to the emails.
Update: Kane’s office has backed off a bit from her earlier claims.
“We are not saying that it reached the level of child pornography,” Kane’s spokeswoman Renee Martin stated. “I think what she said is accurate. The images are deplorable. And some contained seniors and children.”
Update 2: Kane’s spokeswoman Renee Martin is now walking back the walk back:
“When I said that the Pennsylvania Attorney General has decided not to prosecute regarding the emails as pornography, including depictions of children contained in some emails, I misspoke.”
“In fact, the Attorney General has not made a decision one way or the other in light of the recent published opinion of the Chief Justice of the Pennsylvania Supreme Court that the emails he had seen were ‘clearly pornographic’ and may be criminal. As a result of the issuance of a court order, the Attorney General cannot explain her views on the status of these emails, as she explained in a public statement she read prior to her testimony before the Grand Jury on Monday and on CNN on Tuesday night.”
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115 Responses
@ DD:
You falsely assumed this was a “zero-sum” game; Israel is responsible for what it did, but Hamas is responsible for placing civilians in harm’s way.
I’m not surprised that you have avoided – again – replying to the extensive debunking of your five claims; they are restated for convenience:
“As of this moment, you
“[1]–support and justify terrorist-policies and wholesale-murder implemented by and praised by Hamas, in its efforts [per its Covenant] to destroy Israel and to kill its citizenry;
“[2]–claim the Judeo-Christian Ethic is delusional and that its impact on the Founders/Framers – disregarding the Enlightenment – was not as great as that of the Magna Carta; and
“[3]–charge that Israeli children are taught to hate Arabs by their parents and/or teachers, notwithstanding the inability to produce evidence of either effort beyond videos purporting to show teenagers expressing the desire to target [militarily] those who would try to kill them.”
Through it all, you have yet [yourself] to have confirmed that you feel Israel can justifiably claim to be a “Jewish State.”
Robert-
So, if Israel takes 100% of the responsibility for killing children and other innocent civilians, then Hamas as 0%. That’s rather surprising from you.
However, the policy of razing the homes of terrorists is counter-productive (unless you intention is to inflame hostilities with collective punishment).
The fact that Netanyahu has resumed the policy is further proof that he wants to keep the cycle of violence going.
@ DD:
Now that I’m going to answer your question, you will be obligated to attempt to reply to what I typed.
Israel, assuredly, accepts 100% of the responsibility for its actions – including bombings of Gaza – although, as previously documented, they have not targeted civilians.
Take note, also, of the fact that Israel takes full responsibility for razing the homes of terrorists.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/11/21/us-mideast-palestinians-israel-demolitio-idUSKCN0J50ZC20141121
Robert-
Wow. You wasted a lot of time writing all that crap that I’m not even going to bother reading, since you didn’t answer the % question about what % of the responsibility does Israel bear.
It would be instructive were the reader to validate my claim that DD has cited an unreliable/biased source.
Consider the following and note that the [tres-lib] LA-Times was compelled to issue a correction [the hyperlink portrays this in a more “formatted” fashion, with indented-quotes]:
Makdisi’s Factual Errors
For instance, in a Nov. 21, 2004 Op-Ed in the Los Angeles Times, Makdisi, an English professor at University of California Los Angeles, gets the facts wrong about the West Bank barrier. Making multiple mistakes, he writes:
When it is finished, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians will be trapped in dozens of separate enclaves, each surrounded by concrete slabs three times the height of the Berlin Wall, with all points of access under Israeli control.
In actuality, the “concrete slabs” portion of the wall is at most 5 percent, or 30 kilometers, of the whole planned 700 kilometer barrier. (See, for example, Laura King, Los Angeles Times, March 29, 2004). Thus, while Qalqilya and a few neighboring towns–not dozens of enclaves–are surrounded by the Israeli barrier, they are not surrounded by concrete slabs. Much of the barrier around Qalqilya is made of wiring and not concrete slabs, as the photograph on the facing page demonstrates.
In addition, Makdisi exaggerates the height of the barrier. The Berlin Wall was up to 15 feet high (Encylopedia Britannica), while the West Bank barrier’s highest point is twice as high as the Berlin Wall, not three times. According to the spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Ministry, the height of the concrete wall was determined by simulated shootings from the Palestinian side towards the Israeli highway on the other side.
In response to CAMERA’s criticism about these points, the Los Angeles Times printed the following confusing correction on Jan. 16, 2005:
Israeli wall — A Nov. 21 commentary about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict said that, when it is finished, the separation barrier being built by Israel would trap Palestinians in enclaves “surrounded by concrete slabs three times the height of the Berlin Wall.”
In fact, the material that will be used to construct future portions of the barrier is unknown, as is their eventual height. However, in places where the barrier now consists of concrete walls, the slabs are approximately 19 to 26 feet high; the Berlin Wall, by contrast, was about 13 to 15 feet high.
Unfortunately, this correction does not inform readers, but only further misleads them. It does not address Makdisi’s exaggerated claim that “dozens of separate enclaves” will be entirely surrounded by the barrier, when only a few communities will face that situation. Moreover, it wrongly states that the final percentage of the concrete portion of the still uncompleted barrier is unknown. In fact, the final percentage is not a mystery.
According to Col. (res) Danny Tirza, who is responsible for the planning of the security fence, eight meters–or 5 percent–of the 700-kilometer barrier will be made up of concrete upon completion (see, for example, Jerusalem Post, June 16, 2004). In addition, the correction appears to gratuitously tack on Berlin Wall figures, without informing readers that the writer had erred on this matter.
In his November Op-Ed, Makdisi further misleads readers by deceptively suggesting that all West Bank residents are trapped in “closed areas,” which are only open to non-Palestinians.
Indeed, West Bank residents are already incarcerated. Even without the completed wall, whole [Palestinian] communities are trapped in ‘closed areas’ in the West Bank to which only persons of Jewish origin (and visiting tourists) have unrestricted access.
First, it is absolutely untrue that “persons of Jewish origin (and visiting tourists) have unrestricted access” to “whole [Palestinian] communities.” In fact, just the opposite is true. It is illegal for Israelis (Jewish or Arab) to enter Area A, that is, areas solely under the control of the Palestinian Authority, which is where most of the Palestinian population is concentrated. As B’Tselem, an Israeli human rights organization highly critical of Israeli policies, stated in an Aug. 9, 2004 report:
In Area B, restrictions are occasionally placed on travel by Israeli civilians, and Israeli civilians are completely forbidden to enter Area A (except for unusual cases). It should be noted that the prohibition on entry of Israelis to Area A and parts of Area B is incorporated in military orders.
(Area B refers to land under joint Israeli and Palestinian control.)
In addition, as far as freedom of movement and access is concerned, while there are certain roads restricted to those with Israeli license plates and off-limits to those with Palestinian plates, there are no roads reserved only for “persons of Jewish origin (and visiting tourists).”
Israel’s population is one-fifth Arab (a fact which Makdisi points out), and the country’s Arab citizens have just as much right to travel on those restricted roads as do Israeli Jews. In fact, Israeli Arabs frequently use the bypass roads, as they have business connections and relatives in the territories.
Weeks after CAMERA communicated this information to the Los Angeles Times, the readers’ representative responded that Makdisi’s aforementioned statement was referring only to the “closed military area” between the separation barrier and the Green Line. This area, which is also known as the “seam zone,” includes nine Palestinan villages containing 5,200 residents. According to B’Tselem:
The prohibition on entering and being in the seam area without a permit from the Civil Administration, applies only to Palestinians. Israeli citizens, including settlers living in the seam area, Jews from around the world, and tourists visiting Israel are allowed to enter and stay in this area as they wish.
Unfortunately, however, Makdisi fails to make clear that the restrictions that he describes apply only to Palestinians living in the “seam zone.” Indeed, the statement in question immediately follows the misleading sentence: “West Bank residents are already incarcerated,” leading readers to believe wrongly that the restrictions apply for West Bank residents in general.
Binational Background
Makdisi’s Op-Ed calling for the dissolution of Israel on the basis that it is an “anachronism” is following the precendent set by Tony Judt, a history professor at New York University, who made the same argument a year ago in the Los Angeles Times.
In the words of Judt, the Remarque Professor of European Studies, Israel “remains distinctive among democratic states in its resort to ethno-religious criteria with which to denominate and rank its citizens” (Oct. 10, 2003. A longer version of this article had appeared Oct. 23 in the New York Review of Books.)
Makdisi, the nephew of deceased Columbia professor Edward Said, who had for years advocated a binational state, closely mimicked Judt’s language in an Op-Ed this fall:
The question now is not how long Israel’s anachronistic system of ethnic separation–its regime of walls and ghettos–can endure in our global, multicultural world, but rather how desirable it is to think in terms of ethnic separation in the first place. Among developed countries, only in Israel is ethnicity deemed an acceptable foundation for politics. (Nov. 21, 2004)
Like Judt before him, Makdisi thoroughly inverts the reality in which 22 Muslim Arab states give privileged, sometimes exclusive, status to Islam and its hundreds of millions of adherents, while discriminating against non-Muslims.
As the Winter 2004 CAMERA On Campus article about Judt’s diatribe pointed out:
Just one week before [Judt’s] article was published, the Organization of Islamic Countries consisting of 57 nations dedicated to the lofty multi-cultural ethic of strengthening Islamic solidarity among member states, convened a meeting. More than half of the OIC states have sizeable non-Islamic populations. The host nation, Malaysia, which calls itself an Islamic state, has a non-Muslim population of 40 percent. (Israel’s non-Jewish minority is 20 percent.) Unlike Israel, Malaysia has statutory discrimination against its minority; the Malaysian Sensitive Issues Act of 1971 makes it a criminal offense to question the legalized discrimination favoring Muslims. Why is Malaysia (and the 56 other Islamic states) not anachronistic while Israel is?
If we were living in a multicultural world, why was East Timor, the latest addition to the United Nations, created? Why couldn’t multicultural Indonesia–another Muslim country with a sizeable non-Muslim minority–accommodate the East Timorese? Even the multiculturalism of European states is a sleight-of-hand: why did multi-cultural Yugoslavia have to be split up along cultural and religious lines into eight different entities, including the Muslim-Croat Federation?
Makdisi’s most grotesque falsehood is that a binational state “would join two peoples whom history has thrust together into one democratic, secular and self-governing community of truly equal citizens.” In actuality, the formation of a binational state is a formula for the destruction of Israel as a Jewish state.
The history of 22 Muslim Arab states and their discriminatory treatment of Jews and other non-Muslim, non-Arab minorities in their midst–who are deemed inferior “dhimmis”–is just one powerful warning against any concession by Israel of its sovereign status.
The argument for a binational state is one that has percolated on the fringe of the Israeli-Palestinian debate for years. In the last year, however, the idea has made its way into mainstream Op-Ed pages, as if the destruction of a nation is a “viable alternative,” as Makdisi puts it, to the conflict.
camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=155&x_article=836
@ DD:
THUS, try as you might to squirm rhetorically, the prior statement [stripped of bracketed elaborations and tweaked accordingly] remains operational:
“As of this moment, you support and justify terrorist-policies and wholesale-murder implemented by and praised by Hamas, in its efforts to destroy Israel and kill its citizenry; you claim the Judeo-Christian Ethic is delusional and that its impact on the Founders/Framers–disregarding the Enlightenment–was not as great as that of the Magna Carta, and you charge that Israeli children are taught to hate Arabs by their parents and/or teachers, notwithstanding the inability to produce evidence of either effort beyond videos purporting to show teenagers expressing the desire to target [militarily] those who would try to kill them.”
No discussion of tangents related to apartheid can alter these fundamental viewpoints; you will wantonly attack anything Israel does [“damned if you do, damned if you don’t”], you will corrupt fundamental American history and impugn organized religion, and you will attempt to conjure facts that cannot be justified even when searching the wide-ranging Internet.
This exercise of exposing you [and, by extension, any justification you might conjure to support BHO] has proven instructive; you may someday recognize the need to crawl back into your rat-hole…and to remain far away from contact with other living beings until you have rediscovered the well-established tenets of human rights and cogent discourse.
@ DD:
1. You have consistently supported the policies of Terrorism promulgated by Hamas.
2. You base your claim of Israelis targeting civilians [having no military import, compared with the multiple-missiles and terror-tunnels] by consistently creating an arbitrary ratio of purported deaths of civilians vs. terrorists and then applying questionable stats [recalling how Hamas has “revised” its prior estimates] to claim this limit has been exceeded; in the process, you have admitted Israel warned the civilians but that they shouldn’t have bombed anyway due to false-alarms [ignoring the fact that you admitted Hamas leaders employed civilians as human shields].
Thus, your claims fail both due to internal contradictions and the absence of cogent analysis; their sole basis is to impugn Israel, no matter what the IDF would do to protect the citizenry [throughout the country].
3. You have attempted to morph your initial claim that Israeli kids were “taught” to hate Arabs [which you introduced after I’d produced texts showing Hamas had demanded students be “taught” via anti-Semitic texts] as a form of moral egalitarianism; now you claim their parents taught this attitude, again without any documentation whatsoever.
It should dawn on you [and the reader] that ongoing agitation [e.g., the synagogue massacre] provides ample justification to fear those who wish to murder you, en-masse.
4. Your religious-philosophy claims [“The Judeo-Christian “Ethic” is eye-for-an-eye; the Magna Carta was more of an influence in forming the U.S. Constitution”] are both incorrect; you ignore “justice and mercy” which are interlaced throughout the Jewish and Christian Bibles, and you ignore the jarring interposition of the Enlightenment when ID’ing the roots of what the Founders/Framers accomplished.
Regarding the former, yes, that phrase is in Exodus 21:22-25, but you should know that subsequent Talmudic law constrained the Sanhedrin from implementing such literal pronouncements.
Regarding the latter, yes, British Law informed what the colonies were doing [n.b., “Commonwealth of PA”], but the key tenets of the Constitution [which BHO routinely ignores] lack roots in the “deal” between the king and the barons [e.g., separation of powers].
5. The “Basic Laws of Israel” indeed prioritize Judaism and Jews [“Law of Return” … etc.] and it is indeed possible that the Knesset will codify the “Jewish State” mantra in two days; you cannot, however, claim that the Arabs have been disenfranchised [noting Knesset representation and involvement with the PA, for example] and, thus, the subtle effort to impugn Israel by claiming its atmosphere is comparable to that in [old] South Africa cannot be accepted, either politically or ideologically.
Perhaps some of the laws cited in the op-ed [written by a guy whose prior writings have been skewered] would be relaxed were the Arabs to recognize Israel as a “Jewish State.”
camera.org/index.asp?x_context=8&x_nameinnews=155
Robert-
1) I don’t support Hamas. Neither do I support the Likud party leaders of Israel. Both groups are war criminals, and should be treated as such.
2) I complete reject the claim that Israel was really attempting to minimize civilian casualties. 3-1 ratio is not acceptable, and can only be viewed as deliberate.
3) I already said that the video is proof that the kids are taught to hate by their parents, who bring them to these shows. QED.
4) The Judeo-Christian “Ethic” is eye-for-an-eye. The Magna Carta was more of an influence in forming the U.S. Constitution.
5) You still refuse to acknowledge any fault by Israel and the apartheid-like state they are running.
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-makdisi-israel-apartheid-20140518-story.html
@ DD:
Your most-recent posting again reaffirms the conclusion drawn repeatedly during the past week: “As of this moment, you support Hamas [equating the terror-tunnels targeting Israeli citizens and indiscriminate missile-fire against Israeli citizens with the IDF’s efforts to protect Israelis while minimizing Gazan casualties], you claim the Judeo-Christian Ethic is delusional [claiming that the foundations of America are not based on pervasive adherence to “God”], and you charge that Israeli children are taught to hate Arabs [absent the ability to provide a scintilla of supportive evidence such as an excerpt from conjured curriculum, contrasting radically with how Hamas has demanded that UNRWA textbooks both condemn Jews and ignore the Shoah].
Anyone being educated [or reminded of] these radical conclusions [born of a weeklong initiative to tame your elusiveness] will have to decide whether any opinion you express on PoliticsPA is “prima facie” being provided by an individual who has placed himself far outside the views of mainstream-America.
Although this triad reflects the culmination of a programme of administering “truth-serum” in the public sphere, if necessary, additional indefensible claims will be dredged-up from your prior blogging [allegedly disseminated for its “entertainment”-value]; overall, if nothing else, your reflex-defense of BHO will have been denuded of any trappings of justification and reason.
Robert-
Your attitude/thesis is NEVER blame Israel. Do you think they bear 0% responsibility for the situation in Gaza or the deaths of civilians they killed? What % of the responsibility does Israel bear?
If your answer is 0%, then this discussion is at an end.
The tunnels below ground are no different than the Israeli missiles above ground. They are just a tactic of war. Israel attacked 2 to 3 times as many houses as Hamas’s total arsenal of rockets. So, “intended solely to stop its missile-fire @ Israel” is completely false.
Israel’s policy is collective punishment of the civilian population. Do a Google search for:
Israel IDF Whistleblowers
Plenty of accounts, particularly from Eran Efrati.
As for the warnings (when there are warnings), Israel knows that the warnings they use don’t work. The civilian death toll is empirical evidence enough.
Every child in that video demonstrated hatred for Arabs and a desire to kill them. That behavior was taught to them by their head-nodding parents and the other adults running that military show.
@ DD:
This posting reinforces triad of points made earlier, amplifying their import.
You have morphed the classic-line “Blame Bush” [as discredited as this trite-phrase has become noting, for example, the “discovery” of Iraqi WMD] into “Blame Israel” for all the terrorism Hamas has committed and will commit; the terror-tunnels were, indeed, intended solely to terrorize civilians, whereas the attack on Gaza was intended solely to stop its missile-fire @ Israel.
Thus, the prior conclusion stands; as of this moment, you support Hamas.
You can conjure references to Deism from selected people and efforts to discount religion in a subsequent treaty to your heart’s desire, but the deliberations and documents [of the Founders/Framers] are interlaced with references to the Deity; indeed, this is also characteristic of all 50 [then “13”] state-level constitutions.
Thus, the prior conclusion stands; as of this moment, you are manifesting your view that organized religion is delusional by suggesting the foundations of America are not based upon the Judeo-Christian Ethic.
You keep conjuring rationalizations for Israeli misbehavior, now blaming Israel for Gazans not “believing” warnings you now admit were issued; I suppose your next move would be to claim that there was “disproportionate mortality/morbidity,” blaming Israel for not having suffered more casualties.
Thus, the prior conclusion stands; as of this moment, you have been unable to document your assertion that Israeli children are taught to hate Arabs.
Robert-
The Founding Fathers, such as Franklin and Jefferson were heavily influenced by deism. The Jefferson Bible, exhibits a strong deist tendency of stripping away all supernatural and dogmatic references from the Christ story. Other notable Founding Fathers may have been more directly deist. These include James Madison, possibly Alexander Hamilton, Ethan Allen, and Thomas Paine (who published The Age of Reason, a treatise that helped to popularize deism throughout the United States and Europe).
The Treaty of Tripoli was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797, and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.
It clearly states: “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion”
This was a basis for the assertion in the treaty that the US had no enmity against Muslims.
So, the “Enlightenment” of the Founding Fathers was going beyond the religious nonsense (eye-for-an-eye) and having rule of law and religious freedom.
“Terror tunnel” is a propaganda term. These are military tunnels used for attacks, but mostly for smuggling supplies. One might easily refer to Israel’s “terror tanks”, “terror missiles” and “terror airplanes” for their use in killing military and civilians alike.
I blame Israel for continuing to use a “warning” system once it was obvious that it didn’t work. The logical conclusion is that the warning system is bogus and is merely a hollow cover story to excuse the killing of civilians. You still continue to evade the question of how many civilians were human shields. I put the number at 10%, and the other 90% were killed on purpose by Israel and they just flat-out lied by labeling them human shields, as if that was a legitimate justification (which is isn’t).
A storage location is not a legitimate military target when civilians are present and there is no other military activity. Period.
You seem to think I like (love) Hamas. I don’t. I want them out of power. I believe that they get their power/support from Israel’s bad behavior. If Israel made a real commitment to peace, Hamas would lose support and collapse. They exist as a resistance movement. Without the occupation, they would lose followers. So, it’s YOU and people like you that are actually fueling support for Hamas through your sheer stupidity and bigotry against peace.
The destruction of whole sections of Gaza was NOT necessary other than to implement a policy of collective punishment.
Israel’s effort was to target the civilians more than the militants (thus the 3-1 ratio).
Imagine if the American police went into a heavy crime area with and murderous drug gangs (who had recently killed some police officers), and the police killed 3 civilians for every gang member. What would be the reaction?
@ DD:
It dawned on me that you have yet to confirm that you agree that America’s Founders and Framers were manifesting an Enlightenment born of the Judeo-Christian Ethic.
The silence is deafening and if you are blind to this historic fact, perhaps you should follow Romney’s recommendation and plan self-deportation.
Perhaps you would want to join your compatriots in Gaza or in the Islamic State, judging from your hatred of all-things-Israeli.
@ DD:
First, a correction: The terror-tunnels were to be employed on Rosh Hashanah but, despite multiple “invitations,” you have failed to condemn this purely-civilian mass-attack kill/kidnap-plan.
Second, an observation: You blame Israel if Gazans don’t respond to warnings [having recognized that the Hamas leadership uses them as human-shields], again an unabashed effort to restrain Israel from attacking military targets located purposefully in civilian neighborhoods.
You may wish to “process” the concept that stone-throwers will be stripped of citizenship, perhaps then subject to being sent to Gaza [to join people who share their disdain for Jews]; it never ceases to amaze me that Hamas-lovers such as yourself would even countenance slaughter of innocent rabbis engaged in morning-prayer as justified due to abstract grievances [reminiscent of those proclaimed by Arabs in ’29 prior to the Hebron massacre] for which [even if true] the victims have no responsibility.
@ DD:
Each time you perseverate on civilian mortality, you erode your position; in this instance, for example, you have acknowledged that Israel warned Gazans whose buildings were to be bombed and that Hamas knowingly used human shields.
Yet, you would unilaterally restrict Israel’s military effort, for example, by precluding them from destroying bombs [in schools] that, if left untouched, could be launched against Israeli civilian targets; indeed, you continue to evade the fact that these have been launched indiscriminately @ Israel [both near…Sderot…and far…Jerusalem].
The adage “war is hell” is applicable, when the destruction of sections of Gaza was necessary to stop both the 1000’s of missiles from being launched and the use of the terror-tunnels to launch a simultaneous attack on Yom Kippur throughout southern Israel; you have also neglected to condemn this plan.
Your one-sidedness is boundless, contrasted with Israel’s effort to target the military of the Islamists; your scorn for organized religion [noting your declaration that all deities are “fictional”] explains your warped worldview that, one hopes, is not shared by your Dem-associates.
Robert-
I never said that the destruction of homes was used to teach hate. It’s an example of the existing hate manifested as collective punishment of the innocent. You really don’t seem to care what Israel does to innocent Arabs as long as it’s some form of vengeance for a crime committed by some other Arab.
When Jews commit hate crimes and kill Arabs, their homes aren’t destroyed. The policy only applied to the home of non-Jewish murders.
Yes. Hamas uses shields sometimes, but NOT all the time or even most of the time, and not enough to account for the 3-1 kill ratio.
What percentage of the non-combatants killed were shields? 100% 90% …… 10%? You act as though it’s 100%.
Mere storage of weapons is not enough reason to destroy a location with civilians present. Many of the warnings are ignored or not believed. This is partly due to Israel making some warnings that they do not follow through on, leading some Gazans to believe the warnings are bluffs.
The fact that so many civilians are being kills is clear evidence that Israel’s “warning” policy doesn’t work. Dempsey’s “observations” are contradicted by the facts on the ground and all the dead civilians. Clearly, he finds a 3-1 kill ratio to be acceptable, which shows he’s got no moral compass.
If Hamas was killing 3 Israeli civilians for every Israeli soldier, you’d be having a stroke about it.
Morality does not require fictional deity. And, conversely, your belief in a deity has not produced any morality in you.
The bombs aren’t being aimed at military targets. That why they are killing three times as many civilians as combatants. Also, suicide bombers also do take out military targets, like checkpoints.
@ DD:
Each posting is worse than its predecessor, a great accomplishment when you have already descended from the gutter into the sewer; again focusing on the claims that are not so wild as to be incomprehensible, your arguments are prima-facie despicable.
You have departed from claiming that Israeli children are “taught” in school to hate [having abandoned efforts to defend your two prior stabs @ providing “evidence”] by, instead, again, citing a leftie writer for a leftie publication suggesting [inter alia] that Israel’s destruction of the homes of murdering terrorists is fueling hatred [without even suggesting the crime itself was “teaching” Israeli-Jews to become increasingly wary of all Israeli-Arabs.
Hamas admitted using civilians [and children] as shields, and the UN admitted the UNRWA schools stored rockets; without engaging with you in a numbers-game, these are illustrative of the War Crime. Of course, this contrasts with the observation of Dempsey [which you dismissed as having been issued by “just some general,” despite the fact that he chairs the Joint Chiefs of Staff] regarding the extensive warnings Israel issued before bombing buildings used by Hamas [for both warmaking and missile-launching].
Your scorn for those who adhere to organized religion [“deluded masses”] and its impact [“used to justify all sorts of bigotry and injustice for centuries (as well as ignorant attacks on evolution)”] failed even to suggest the possibility that instilling a sense of morality has been the thrust thereof; it is therefore tempting to suggest that your comprehensive rejection of religious thought bespeaks your failure to base your writings on any type of ethical underpinning.
The most dramatic example of your effort to “balance-out” actions of the IDF and those of Hamas [“Dropping a bomb from a plane or firing a missile is not morally superior to donning a suicide-vest”] is undermined when it is noted the former is aimed @ military targets whereas the latter is aimed @ civilian targets.
You may wish to inquire of your Dem-colleagues whether they adhere to any facet of your brand of anti-Semitism.
Robert-
Article from Slate on the ingrained inequality:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2014/11/israel_s_demolition_of_palestinian_homes_benjamin_netanyahu_s_government.html
I absolutely and categorically deny that the 500 children (and 1,000 adult civilians) killed were all “human shields”, as you want to claim. There is a 3 to 1 ratio of non-combatants to combatants killed.
The numbers show that Israel doesn’t have any regard for “shields”, so, there would be no point that being the tactic.
But, even more ridiculous is the idea that every legitimate combatant target would have (on average) three human shields with him, while he was engaged in fighting and then killed by Israelis along with his “shields”.
I NEVER said that religious belief wasn’t important in American society. Quite the contrary, it’s far too important to the deluded masses and has been used to justify all sorts of bigotry and injustice for centuries (as well as ignorant attacks on evolution).
The hateful behavior was being taught by the people running the military show and the @sshole parents who brought their kids there. Basically, every adult in the video.
I don’t deny that Arabs are taught to hate Jews. I just deny your assertions that the hate is one sided. The Israelis don’t need suicide-vests because they have tanks, ships and aircraft. Dropping a bomb from a plane or firing a missile is not morally superior to donning a suicide-vest.
Just admit that you get off on the idea of Arab children being killed because then they can’t grow up to threaten Israel.
@ DD:
When approaching your input, it’s desirable to try first to separate wheat [content] from chaff [invective]; this one has even less of the former than has been your custom, and your misrepresentation of your prior postings is undeniable.
I have never denied the deaths of hundreds of Gazans [including children], but you have not acknowledged the fact that they were admittedly employed as human shields by Hamas while Israel dealt both with the thousands of missiles emitted from Gaza plus the terror-tunnels that were to be employed on Rosh Hashanah.
Your denial of the importance of religion in American society [recalling the Judeo-Christian Ethic that has historically animated it] is galling [“The Koran, Bible (Old/New Testaments), Book of Mormon, and any others that are founded on the existence of a deity and supernatural beings are ALL based on delusion”]; you need an attitudinal readjustment [and/or relocation to a country that shares your brand of secularism].
Your blank-check rationalization of Islamist terror [“Palestinians have a rational basis for their attacks on Israel; that basis is Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories combined with the blockades on Gaza”] is both factually incorrect [Israelis don’t control the Philadelphi corridor] and morally abhorrent [Israel does not control the misguided Gaza Strip governance]; indeed, as murder and rioting run amok in Judea/Samaria [despite Israeli efforts to maintain calm], I wouldn’t be surprised if you would include within your endorsement-proclamation the hacking of four rabbis engaged in morning-prayers in Jerusalem [plus the Druze police officer who attempted to limit the carnage].
Finally, your dementia is fully manifest when you falsely characterize your two citations [“The article and behavior described within was a clear demonstration of Israeli children being taught to glorify war against Arabs”] when NEITHER demonstrate what prejudice had allegedly been “TAUGHT” [and by whom]. And, of course, in the process of attempting to invoke moral equivalence, you failed to counter my documentation that it is the Arabs who insist upon teaching their children to hate Israelis [and Jews], even encouraging them to don suicide-vests [so that they can anticipate martyrdom].
Your depravity does not befit this website.
Robert-
You are denying the deaths of 500 children!
What is your objection?
a) You think there were only 300 or 400 (so, that’s too few to be an atrocity for you)?
(500 is the official estimate from UN and human rights organizations out of about 1,500 civilians killed. Israel ADMITS to killing 1,000 civilians without providing any contradictory evidence to the official count of about 1,500)
b) Do you dispute that the children were innocent?
c) Do you dispute that they were killed by Israeli weapons?
d) How many children do you think were killed in Gaza last summer by Israelis forces who pulled the triggers?
The Koran, Bible (Old/New Testaments), Book of Mormon, and any others that are founded on the existence of a deity and supernatural beings are ALL based on delusion.
As for the rest:
Yes. The Palestinians have a rational basis for their attacks on Israel. That basis is Israel’s treatment of Palestinians in the occupied territories combined with the blockades on Gaza. The only “irrational” part is that their method of retaliation is very ineffective and a poor use of resources.
The article and behavior described within was a clear demonstration of Israeli children being taught to glorify war against Arabs. The video was from a similar event (there are lots of events like these, and the kids in the video talked about others they’d been too). The kids were being taught to equate Arabs with the enemy, and that it was okay to kill them without remorse (ie be “happy” about it). These military indoctrination events for kids are despicable, and if those kids were Arabs talking about killing Jews, you would be blowing a fuse.
You simply refuse to accept or admit any wrong-doing on Israel’s part: how they treat Palestinians, how they expand settlements, how they cheer at bombs dropped on Gaza, how they engage in collective punishment of civilian population, how they engage in raids and shooting protesters, how they are okay with 75% of their kills being non-combatant civilians, how they delay the peace process, who they discriminate against non-Jews in housing and employment, etc.
You can’t comprehend anything from the point of view of the Palestinians, and can’t acknowledge one ounce of their suffering caused by a single Israeli.
This is probably similar to your inability to comprehend the plight of minimum wage workers in this country or black voters being disenfranchised.
Maybe it’s because your head is so far up your own @ss.
Whatever the reason, you are just a classic bigot in the mold of Archie Bunker arguing that God is White or that blacks prefer living in the ghettos to be with their own kind.
@ Denny:
DD has admitted [and subsequently chose not to deny, repeatedly] he rationalized Hamas’s terrorism [past, present, future], he characterized the Judeo-Christian Bible as delusional, and he claimed Israeli youth are taught to hate Arabs.
He thinks the best defense is issuing offensive [and baseless] accusations that are overtly factually deficient [“500 hundred Palestinian children”]; he changes-the-subject when challenged and, indeed, violated his [unjustified] attack on me when he quoted an article that was probably the result of a Guggle-search without having read anything more than its title.
[“Three Strikes, yer OUT!”]
Denny-
Robert admits he is a creepy stalker.
He also doesn’t understand the contradiction in claiming that I find all religions delusional, yet he thinks I support Islam.
Robert is just an old anti-Arab bigot who blames the deaths of 500 hundred Palestinian children on everybody but the Israelis who actually pulled the launch triggers, and the leadership that set the policy of collective punishment.
@ Denny:
The goal has been to show why DD lacks credibility; he’s slippery, so it was necessary to stalk him as he wandered from site to site.
As a result, you should know that whatever he types is tinged by his support for Hamas [and, by extension, Islamism], by his anti-religious views [Bible=Delusional] and, now, by his desperate claim that Israeli youth are educated to hate Arabs [again, 100% discredited].
It is notable that he was silent on this site after he was nailed [regarding the first two components of this patter] last week; even if he is driven-away due to embarrassment, you will be spared his superficial [sometimes profane] swipes @ decent people.
What a shocker, more false reporting from Sara Ganim.
Headline: David and Robert hijack ANOTHER thread. Can indictments be far behind?
@ DD:
All you have provided is a video which has clips of people evincing fear and wanting to prophylax against being killed; you have not demonstrated anything about whether they were “taught” to do so and, instead, you invoke the classic “moral equivalency.”
This doesn’t begin to suffice; not only did you not show anyone expressing the desire to sport a suicide-vest [as Arab children have been repeatedly photographed as having worn], but you have failed to show that any INSTRUCTION in school had fueled Islamophobia [which is the classic allegation, promulgated by people such as yourself to counter the recognized anti-Semitism of Arab leaders].
Therefore, in the absence of proof that ” Israeli youth are taught to hate Arabs,” you have again been shown to have “reinterpreted” two cites from the Internet [an article and a video], with the former not documenting [in its text] any Israeli curriculum that could remotely support your assertion, and with the latter not documenting [in its brief-clips] any proof that expressed-attitudes were tethered to school-instruction that would be conceptualized as hate-endorsing.
Robert-
Thank you for acknowledging that children are being taught to expect Arabs to attack them first. (ie fear Arabs)
Then to want to kill them and be happy about it (ie hate Arabs)
In a moral/evolved society, a child would be not be taught to relish killing, but rather regret that it might be necessary and be unhappy about it. No talk of merely wounding/disabling/disarming someone so they couldn’t fight.
The video is clear that the kids are being taught to glorify war and to hate. One kid couldn’t wait for fighting to start up in Lebanon again. This is indoctrination of children to kill.
Of course, the 500 children, killed in Gaza this past summer by Israeli forces, weren’t trying to kill anyone. So, who’s happy about that, besides you?
BTW, Israel isn’t keen on interfaith marriages either.
@ DD:
Further documentation:
“From 1920-1948, a (class ‘A’ Mandate) State of Palestine existed as per international law but it was, as all of its major institutions, Jewish. Until the 1960s, the name “Palestine” resonated as something Jewish to peoples ears. The 4000 year-old Jewish homeland or “Land of Israel” or the “Holy Land” were all synonymous….The U.N. did not recreate Israel, as some people claim.”
factualisrael.com/1939-palestinian-flag-look-like-surprised/
avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/palmanda.asp
@ DD:
I made the ACCURATE claim that the word “hate” did not appear in the article [because it was only in the headline that, as you may know, is often not composed by the author of the essay], then I did NOT change the subject when exposing the ABSENCE of proof that “fear/hate” are being TAUGHT to kids.
You have yet to show that “fear/hate” in textbooks, etc., whereas you know that UNRWA-financed texts used by Palestinian Arabs are laced with references to killing Jews.
In comparison, “Hamas rejected UN textbooks in Gaza schools because the government believes the curriculum does not match the ‘ideology and philosophy’ of the local population, according to a spokesman for the Hamas-run Education Ministry.
“Gaza’s Hamas authorities have blocked a UN refugee agency from introducing textbooks promoting human rights into local schools, saying it ignores Palestinian cultural mores and focuses too heavily on “peaceful” means of conflict resolution.
“He said the textbooks, used in grades 7 through 9, did not sufficiently address Palestinian suffering and did not acknowledge the right to battle Israel. ‘There is a tremendous focus on the peaceful resistance as the only tool to achieve freedom and independence,’ he said.
“Hamas, which has killed hundreds of Israelis in suicide bombings and other attacks, says that ‘armed resistance’ is a key component of its struggle against Israel. The group also objected to the books’ inclusion of the ‘Universal Declaration of Human Rights,’ a document approved by the UN General Assembly in 1948 that recognizes ‘the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family.’ Hamas believes that certain parts of the declaration violate Islamic law, including the right of people of different faiths to marry and the right to change one’s religion.
haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.574208
I daresay you will not find any Israeli official defending a textbook that both promotes hatred and expunges information regarding a key-moment in history [plus generic references to the importance of honoring human-rights].
“Hamas has frequently squabbled with UNRWA in a rivalry for the hearts and minds of Gaza’s people. Hamas has pressed the UN not to organize mixed folkloric dancing for boys and girls; to keep Holocaust education out of its curriculum and it has used harsh rhetoric against previous senior UN officials. Last year, UNRWA canceled its annual Gaza marathon after Hamas banned women from participating.”
Regarding your video, a phrase [“I picture a dead Arab and that makes me happy”] is uttered [literally and figuratively] by two people [a boy and a teenage girl] but, in both instances, the video shows it was preceded by reference to having first been attacked by an Arab who wanted to kill the Israeli.
Regardless of whether this attitude was adopted based upon education or by family-based experience, it contrasts with the above-cited approach adopted by the Arabs, namely, to kill Jews first and then to reassess the situation. Illustrative of the outcome of these disparate schoolings is the fact that Arabs were dancing in the streets after the Synagogue massacre earlier this week [and distributing candy and cookies].
Thus, when you lionize “both the title and line from the article,” you fail to demonstrate that Israelis instruct their youth to “fear/hate” Arabs; further, when you cite a heavily-edited video, you fail to demonstrate that Israeli kids emerge from the educational experience with a desire to kill [anyone].
Thus, I have not been “denying the entire point about what kids are being taught”; in contrast, you have twice failed to prove your assertion that Israeli kids are taught to “fear/hate” Arabs…even as I have documented the fact that the Arabs are taught to “hate” Jews [even if they don’t live in Israel] and others [including fraternal organizations in America, as documented by my quotations from the Hamas Covenant].
Therefore, you have failed, again, to salvage your credibility.
Robert-
You made the (false) claim that the word “hate” did not appear in the article, then you change the subject when demonstrate both the title and line from the article, while denying the entire point about what kids are being taught.
Maybe some video, with interviews with kids, will help you acknowledge the truth about what they are being taught. If Arab kids were making these same statements, you’d probably advocate for killing them before they could grow up. But, I’m sure you will treat these Israeli kids as future heroes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9bXEVpgyHg
@ DD:
Thus, you admit that your citation was based upon the interpretation of the article by the headline-writer, for the text failed to support your claim; this is a classic example of how prejudiced people attempt desperately to validate their charges, absent a shred of justification.
Again, a retraction is in-order, for you have failed to demonstrate that the Israeli educational system teaches children to “hate/fear” Arabs.
Robert-
The word “hate” is in the title.
and in the following:
“I couldn’t find a thing on any of the sites that track hate in the Middle East”
Which was the author indicating that he thought it was hate, but wasn’t being tracked due to bias.
@ DD:
As in the past, your citation doesn’t match-up to your claim; no-where in your article–composed by a leftie and published in a leftie-rag–is either word you employed [“hate/fear”].
The “meat” of the article is also problematic; skipping the sections regarding what the Palestinian Arabs do [the authenticity of which the author fails to challenge], the claims against Israel are incorrect:
[1]–We’re told that Palestinian maps in schools often show a unified Palestine between the river and the sea — “how awful!” — yet Israeli maps, more often than Palestinian ones in fact, don’t show the Green Line, and Jews don’t really seem to care.
[2]–We’re told that Palestinians are taught in school that the Jewish historical claims to the land, particularly the Temple Mount, don’t really exist — “how awful!” — yet in a similar tone, many Israeli children learn that “Palestinians” were only recently invented, and Jews don’t really seem to care.
[3]–We’re told that Palestinian textbooks distort history — “how awful!” — yet a recent State Department study found that many Israeli textbooks do too, and Jews don’t really seem to care.
[4]–And now, we have yet another confirmation that Israeli children also learn to glorify and aspire toward violence, and — surprise, surprise — no one really seems to care.
blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/#ixzz3JdIkg6dA
[1]–Maps denote internationally-recognized borders, with armistice [cease-fire] lines viewable as optional.
[2]–The term “Palestinians” referred to Jews during most of the 20th Century, derived from when the Romans renamed the region [presumably drawing from the word “Philistines”]; it was indeed “invented” during the past half-century to denote those who claim roots in the area that had been partitioned [with increasing references thereto after the ’67 War].
[3]–It is impossible to critique reference to anything composed by the State Department regarding Israeli educational practices without being able to review primary sources.
[4]–It is desirable to teach self-defense [noting, also, that Israel has universal conscription]; this is not comparable to glorifying terrorism by, for example, depicting kids wearing suicide-vests.
DD, you are a disgrace and have forgotten to “stop digging”!
Robert-
Actually, I said hate/fear.
blogs.forward.com/forward-thinking/197866/when-israelis-teach-their-kids-to-hate/
she’s just really, really bad at this.
@ Bungy:
Pay DD no mind, for he’s demonstrated his lack of credibility.
Among other outrageous/undocumented claims [that he reinforced after having been provided an opportunity to amend/retract], he rationalized Hamas’s terrorism [past, present, future], he characterized the Judeo-Christian Bible as delusional, and he claimed Israeli youth are taught to hate Arabs.
https://www.politicspa.com/pa-sen-supporter-launches-ready-for-shapiro/61843/#comments
bungy, exactly right. Do we see a pattern here? Kane makes an outrageous statement in an attempt to smear Republicans who she doesn’t like. Next day, her office walks back her comments. What a train wreck.
“The drawing thing may be an open legal question regarding classification because even though it depicts underage sexual acts, no actual children are used/harmed to produce the drawings. So, is it really child pornography if it’s just ‘ink’?”
Interesting case, but I think the U.S. Supreme Court said that it is not about 15 years ago. But, PA’s AG SHOULD know that.
Unsanctioned R-
That’s only because my email contained a virus that forwarded all your porn. 🙂
Bungy-
Umm… what lies? The original statement and the clarification aren’t contradictory. So… not a lie.
Lanny Davis says he saw only two images, not all of them. Though, I’m not sure what is “borderline” child pornography. Is that kids naked, but not engaged in sexual acts? Is it adults who look underage portraying children? Is it anime pornographic cartoons/drawings of kids?
The drawing thing may be an open legal question regarding classification because even though it depicts underage sexual acts, no actual children are used/harmed to produce the drawings. So, is it really child pornography if it’s just “ink”?
Kane is now retracting the lies she told cnn yesterday. Incredible. She will soon be indicted and sued by many for her countless lies.
Of course, David. His subpoena was for everything I received from you.
Er, Journal Register (not Record), or 21st Century Media, their current incarnation. Whatever, they don’t really report, especially if it favors a Democrat.
Diano – What newspapers? If the Inquirer is in the bag for Fina, I assume we won’t see the Daily News rushing to pick up the real story. None of the Journal Record papers in the burbs will go to bat for Kane, and Jersey papers don’t care. What’s left? I think the days of hoping for real journalism to sort out the truth are sadly a thing of the past.
Unsanctioned R-
Observer is only forwarding those emails from you. LOL 🙂
Observer knows Fina has porn in his inbox because Observer sends it to him.
The newspapers should hound Fina with questions and get him to go on record about his own emails.
Also, newspapers should push for access to the names of officials and get a court ruling that supersedes the one preventing Kane from outing Fina.
Fina has the truth on his side. Kane will be indicted very soon.
Don’t bother going to the Inquirer. Their Kane Assassins, McCoy and Couloumbis, devoted a mere 4 column inches to this horrific story. Meanwhile, they devoted 16 or more inches to a re-hash of her grand jury appearance. Funny how the name of their favorite “Unnamed Source” (whom they love to quote verbatim at length while never saying His Name) never came up in the porn email article – even though Hundreds of those emails originated from his computer. Frank Fina is fighting to stay out of jail, here, and the Inqy is doing their best to aid and abet him.
Dude–a) the images are not illegal. b) She is being hampered in her investigation by the Fina initiated court order.
If that was the case, why isn’t she prosecuting these people?